It’s a great discussion that follows, very illuminating, which boils down to: yes, Arabic translators had a minimal effect on the transmission of Classical knowledge, which was mostly translated from Greek into Western languages via Constantinople; all scholars know this, and there is no real debate on the point; however, there’s the claim that the contrary is true and Arabic translators saved Classical knowlege, a popular misconception fueled by the media.
Since I’m pretty worried that Reddit will eventually delete this, I will copy and paste it all below:
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“The oft-repeated assertion that Islam “preserved” classical knowledge and then graciously passed it on to Europe is baseless”–Accurate?

From The Myth of Andalusian Paradise. Having a discussion online and this issue came up. It is a common trope that Muslims preserved classical knowledge that would have been lost otherwise, so it was a bit of a surprise first time I read his book.
I’ll provide a fuller quote so Fernández-Morera can speak in his own words:
The oft-repeated assertion that Islam “preserved” classical knowledge and then graciously passed it on to Europe is baseless. Ancient Greek texts and Greek culture were never “lost” to be somehow “recovered” and “transmitted” by Islamic scholars, as so many academic historians and journalists continue to write: these texts were always there, preserved and studied by the monks and lay scholars of the Greek Roman Empire and passed on to Europe and to the Islamic empire at various times. As Michael Harris points out in his History of Libraries in the Western World:
The great writings of the classical era, particularly those of Greece … were always available to the Byzantines and to those Western peoples in cultural and diplomatic contact with the Eastern Empire.… Of the Greek classics known today, at least seventy-five percent are known through Byzantine copies.
The historian John Julius Norwich has also reminded us that “much of what we know about antiquity—especially Hellenic and Roman literature and Roman law—would have been lost forever if it weren’t for the scholars and scribes of Constantinople.”
The Muslim intellectuals who served as propagandists for Caliph Al-Mamun (the same caliph who started the famous Islamic Inquisition to cope with the rationalism that had begun to infiltrate Islam upon its contact with Greek knowledge), such as al-Gahiz (d. 868), repeatedly asserted that Christianity had stopped the Rum (Romans—that is, the inhabitants of the Greek Roman Empire) from taking advantage of classical knowledge. This propaganda is still repeated today by those Western historians who not only are biased against Christianity but also are often occupationally invested in the field of Islamic studies and Islamic cultural influence.Lamenting the end of the study of ancient philosophy and science upon the presumed closing of the Athenian Neoplatonic Academy by Emperor Justinian I in 529 is part of this narrative. Yet this propaganda does not correspond to the facts, as Speros Vryonis and others have shown, and as evidenced by the preservation and use of ancient Greek knowledge by the Christians of the empire of the Greeks.
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level 1XenophonTheAthenian·3yLate Republic and Roman Civil Wars
This propaganda is still repeated today by those Western historians who not only are biased against Christianity but also are often occupationally invested in the field of Islamic studies and Islamic cultural influence
No historian, classicist, philologist, or linguist with any credentials argues that Muslim translations of Greek and Latin texts preserved any significant number of classical texts that would not have been extant in either the Greek east or the Latin west. Regardless of the truth of the claim as a whole the polemic nature of this and other statements is immediately obvious, and it should be clear that this is not an objective analysis. The author speaks of “many academic historians” arguing that classical texts would have been unknown to the west without Islamic scholars–yet I can think of not a single reputable scholar who actually argues this
The issue here, both in the treatment above and the “popular” understanding of the transmission of classical texts, is essentially an ignorance of how texts are actually transmitted. Texts prior to mechanical printing are usually not lost in massive conflagrations, they are lost because people stop copying them over time. Moreover, because of the way texts were copied in the Middle Ages, texts could be “lost” without actually disappearing in all known copies. Classical manuscripts were copied with quasi-religious (sometimes even explicitly religious) attention by medieval scribes. Many of these texts were used as teaching texts for Latin or, in the Greek east, Greek–our most plentiful texts (Homer, Caesar, Virgil, etc) are known to us in part because of the enormous quantity of school texts. Other times the texts were copied out and all but forgotten, sitting in some monastery somewhere and only brought out to be recopied when the old copy was showing its age. Much of the work of Renaissance humanists was to go to remote monasteries like Monte Cassino and actually search for unknown texts–Tacitus re-entered literary prominence when Boccaccio brought Annales 11-16 from Monte Cassino to be recopied at Florence. Large numbers of classical texts were of little interest to medieval scholars and remained ignored, even though there were copies of them available if one looked hard enough.
Muslim scholars, however, were greatly interested in classical texts, especially Greek medical and philosophical texts. They generally translated these into Arabic and distributed them widely. Importantly, they wrote copious quantities of commentaries, often real philosophical works in their own right, that were also distributed. Many of these Arabic translations were then translated into Latin by western scholars who got their hands on them (mostly through Iberia). The impact of these Latin translations of Arabic translations of Greek is hard to understate. Greek was lost in the west until the Renaissance (excepting Ireland), and often these Latin translations of Arabic translations–or sometimes only the commentaries on them!–were all that was available in the west of authors who, although known by name, did not have any readable texts available. The case of Aristotle is probably the most important and best known. Although a couple of Aristotle’s works had been translated into Latin in late antiquity, most of Aristotle’s surviving Greek corpus (known and studies in the Greek east) was unknown to the west as actual texts for most of the Middle Ages. Knowledge of Aristotle arrived peacemeal, but often from Islamic sources. The so-called “Recovery of Aristotle,” which took place around the 12th and 13th centuries, in large part from Arabic translations that were translated into Latin, along with their Arabic commentaries. Averroes’ Arabic commentary, translated into Latin fairly early on, was considered the commentary on Aristotle in the Latin west, and Thomas Aquinas, the great Aristotelean scholar, called him “the Commentator.”
From this the popular imagination assumes often that Greek texts were only known to the Latin west through Arabic translations, to the extent that we even have people thinking that our Greek texts are actually translations from Arabic into Greek (not trying to shame the user or anything, it’s a good question given the popular perception of textual transmission)! While many Greek texts were known only in Latin translation, often from Arabic, for most of the Middle Ages, the texts as we have them now are available mainly due to the work of Renaissance scholars, at least their efforts in compiling and identifying them (obviously the scribes are the ones who preserved the texts). The Renaissance was punctuated by a growing interest among humanists in going out to find copies of ancient texts which had been “lost,” as well as an influx of Greek texts from the east, which had been unknown to the Latin west. As far as preserving Greek for us, then, the contributions of Arabic scholars are, while not trivial, not especially significant. These texts would have existed and likely would have been reintroduced at some point even if Muslim scholars had never translated them, and with only a handful of exceptions (in fact, none that I can think of off the top of my head) the texts which were translated to Latin from Arabic translations are known to us in their original language from independent copies. Nevertheless, their influence in reintroducing these texts to the medieval west cannot be understated. Moreover, the intellectual tradition derived from the work of Muslim scholars like Averroes is still felt in the discourse–so much of the opinion of Thomas Aquinas (who had never read Aristotle in Greek), for example, was based on what Averroes had said about him, and thus the influence is felt on later scholars. The popular misunderstanding about the way texts are transmitted means that the statement that we wouldn’t have Greek if not for Muslim scholars is, taken strictly like that, absurd. But that does not mean that Muslim scholars did not have a crucial impact on the reintroduction of the content of these works or on rekindling interest in them in the west. That alone is significant, even if the actual texts as we have them are handed down to us largely independent of Muslim scholars.
In other words the argument above, while strictly true, is arguing against a strawman, and the author’s use of inflammatory language (propaganda? In the 13th century?) suggests to me that he knows it. No scholar actually thinks that we wouldn’t have Greek if not for Muslim scholars, that’s not what the importance of Muslim classical scholars on the west (much less to us now) was. Moreover, it should be noted that while the Greek east preserved classical Greek texts they did not generally make these texts available to the Latin west. While we ourselves have Greek texts derived from the copies available to Byzantine scholars, the Latin scholars of the Middle Ages did not have access to these copies, and could not read them anyway. To the scholars at the time of the introduction of translations from the Muslim world that was all they had to work with. Byzantine copies would not become available in any significant quantities until the Renaissance98Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 2TanktopSamurai·3yInteresting Inquirer
Moreover, it should be noted that while the Greek east preserved classical Greek texts they did not generally make these texts available to the Latin west
Why is that?9Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 3XenophonTheAthenian·3yLate Republic and Roman Civil Wars
Lack of interest in the west? Lack of desire in the east? Inability? Refusal? All of the above? I’m no medievalist, and I’m not especially excited to step on anybody’s toes talking about things that I’m not really up on.
Still, I think it’s safe to say that Byzantine scholars and western scholars simply did not communicate with each other. To this we might add (or explain by reference to) the relative lack of movement between the east and west, the religious differences, the fact that Latin scholars could not read Greek, etc. Some of these are not circumstances peculiar to the Greek world. The safe, efficient transport of the Principate at peace was long gone, and just as trade rapidly breaks down in the Mediterranean in the third century so too does the trade of books and other scholarly materials. Already by late antiquity the volume of books available to any one scholar was much lower than it had been in the past, and the interest in written materials was greatly diminished. Medieval scholars were hardly solitary wizards working at their arcane tomes in secluded towers, cut off from the rest of the world and from each other, but the networks that had connected Roman scholars and writers to each other had long since broken down. Individual monasteries maintained copies of texts lost in the rest of Europe, yet scholars elsewhere didn’t actually know that those texts were there. Moreover, knowledge of what was in the Greek world was fairly restricted to western Latin scholars. Athens, for example, was of course known by name to the west, but until the fifteenth century no actual description of the city was available for western scholars, even despite the fact that the city had been ruled by Franks for a time. The relative isolation of Greek and Latin scholars is compounded by the fact that Latin scholars had largely lost the ability to read Greek. Greek letters were still used for numbering and stuff, and we find a few Greek texts bouncing around (often transcribed into Latin characters so the pronunciation could be read aloud, regardless of meaning), but true reading knowledge of the language had more or less disappeared among literate westerners. By the thirteenth century or so a few stumbling attempts had been made to introduce teaching materials for Greek, but these were unsuccessful and in some cases simply wrong–Greek (or rather, individual Greek words used as jargon to pepper one’s writing, without knowledge of grammar and syntax) as it was taught in the Middle Ages in the west was a corrupted form of the language, where declension and conjugation were done away with to make all nouns and verbs end the same way. Among Italian traders some knowledge of Greek was preserved, or more accurately reintroduced, by their dealings with the Greeks in the east, but introduction of the language was dreadfully slow and only rarely did scholars try to take advantage of Italians who sort of knew Greek. John of Salisbury in the twelfth century was one of the few who tried to learn Greek from Italians, without much success.
By contrast, the Muslim world was, somewhat paradoxically, more accessible to Latin scholars. Even if, as Fernández-Morera argues, Muslim Spain was no “paradise,” the close proximity of several cultures to each other, one of which had a rich tradition in using the living classical texts translated into its own language, meant that information spread much more rapidly. One also suspects, though it’d take a true medievalist to determine if it’s more than just a hunch, that the proximity of Spain to the centers of medieval Latin culture in France, Britain, etc. might have helped. The Byzantine world was far away and largely closed off, and even what entered through Italy was still often fairly distant. Information traveled slowly in the medieval world, more slowly than it had at the height of the Principate.20Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 4alriclofgar·3yPost-Roman Britain | Late Antiquity
I think it’s safe to say that Byzantine scholars and western scholars simply did not communicate with each other. To this we might add (or explain by reference to) the relative lack of movement between the east and west, the religious differences, the fact that Latin scholars could not read Greek, etc.
This very much depends on where and when you are talking about. There was a school in 7th century Anglo-Saxon England (in Canterbury) where Byzantine Monks taught English students to read Greek, for instance, and early medieval English literature (particularly, the Latin riddles of Aldhelm) show traces of this Greek education. This is merely one of many ongoing connections between the east and west during the early middle ages–a topic that /u/shlin28 can comment on in much greater detail than me, should they so choose.10Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 5XenophonTheAthenian·3yLate Republic and Roman Civil Wars
I’m happy–eager, even–to be brought up to speed on the knowledge of Greek in the Middle Ages, especially since for decades it was more or less doctrinaire among classicists that Greek was lost in the west. It’s my understanding that contact between Greek scholars in the east and Latin scholars in the west broke down severely after the Great Schism, which would naturally be after this. Is that in fact the case?3Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 6shlin28·3y·edited 3yInactive Flair
I’m afraid that I can’t really help with the linguistic side of things, since I look more at the movement of individuals. Nor can I help really with the later period, since I only really look at the sixth and seventh centuries. My thoughts below are very much only thoughts and should not be taken as anything reliable – we’d need a proper Byzantine intellectual historian for that!
I think my first point would have to be that Byzantinists have increasingly downplayed the significance of the Great Schism in 1054; theological disputes rarely, if ever, lead to divisions to the extent that contacts between cultures were visibly curtailed. If anything the centuries afterwards saw an exponential increase in exchange, since westerners now had a foothold in the western Mediterranean, while the number of easterners travelling westwards also increased, whether to take part in councils or to beg for support from western powers. Tia Kolbaba’s chapter on Byzantine disputes with western theologians in the Cambridge Intellectual History of Byzantium (2017) is very good on this, particularly on the shift from traditional Byzantine condescension towards western intellectuals to a more complex relationship when Latin polities were on Byzantium’s doorstep.
But I think it’s also useful to look at knowledge of Greek from below. People constantly moved across Christian Europe, which must have involved an understanding, no matter how hazy, of their destination. Pilgrims and mercenaries are the best attested, all of which are clues to how westerners were aware of the Greek empire and its language. There was, for example, a Byzantine recruiting bureau in England in the eleventh century, as Peter Frankopan has suggested based on the presence of Byzantine seals. We also know of Anglo-Saxon and Scandinavian mercenaries who served in Constantinople as members of the Varangian Guard. In 1066 in England, for instance, there was one king in England who must have been conversant in Greek – Harald Hardrada of Norway, thanks to his service under Emperor Michael IV. After the Norman Conquest, refugee Anglo-Saxon warriors also found a place in the East, to the extent that the Byzantine author Kekaumenos was annoyed that strangers from England were favoured by the emperor. A later English visitor to Constantinople (c. 1090) even discovered, to his surprise, that his friends from home were now in the imperial household and, more importantly, were willing to help the pilgrim to steal some relics for his monastic community in, er, Kent.. Perhaps a decade later, a Byzantine embassy arrived in England, including a native of Lincoln who took the opportunity to donate a relic to Abingdon Abbey. I’ve also collected a few possible examples of Greeks in tenth/eleventh-century England here. All this tells us nothing about scholarly exchange, but it does, I think, give us a hint of how a working knowledge of mundane daily-life Greek was more widespread than what most people have imagined it, which could perhaps also impact on our understanding of the quantity of the exchange of manuscripts. Of course, the individuals noted here were far from intellectuals, but they are nonetheless examples of how Byzantium was not a sealed bubble from the outside world – least of all in the age of the Crusades.
The same goes for the earlier period I’m more familiar with. As /u/alriclofgar noted, in the seventh century there was a school in Canterbury that taught Anglo-Saxon students Greek, alongside eastern approaches to exegesis, under Theodore of Tarsus, precisely at a time when Mediterranean unity was supposed to be breaking down and the East and West’s paths diverged. Particularly on the issue of western knowledge of Athens, Theodore himself may have been educated in Athens (as well as in Antioch and Constantinople), but the evidence is shaky – still, there is a slim possibility that we have a scholar lecturing in ‘Dark Age’ Canterbury while drawing on his personal experiences of Athens, which is pretty cool. Anyway, based on this, I was therefore quite struck by your line that westerners don’t have access to descriptions of Athens – I wonder where I can read more about this? At first glance, I’m unconvinced (since there must have been people who knew it quite well, if only by word-of-mouth?), but the Middle Ages do have a tendency to surprise me… I’m also not a classicist, so I’d be eager to know what would be the main surveys of this issue from their perspective?8Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 7XenophonTheAthenian·3yLate Republic and Roman Civil Wars
I was therefore quite struck by your line that westerners don’t have access to descriptions of Athens
This is mainly from the New Pauly, which has a whole bunch of stuff in its bibliography about the medieval reception of Athens. At the very least it appears that no surviving textual or visual description of Athens as it actually existed exists in the west before Cyriacus of Ancona in the fifteenth century and especially the sketches of the early modern period. As the New Pauly puts it, “depictions of Athens…[they mention a couple, admittedly fifteenth century, examples] are visual topoi of Gothic style without any specific details of the place and are not based on any close and rigorous examination.” Now it’s my understanding that most maps in the Middle Ages were not especially interested in depicting what cities actually looked like, even for cities as important as Jerusalem. But apparently at least one scholar, Martin Crusius, as late as the sixteenth century questioned whether Athens had ever existed at all and whether it wasn’t just some elaborate allegory of classical authors. That’s as far as my understanding takes me; it would seem that although there was no shortage of people (especially in Italy) who had seen or knew about Athens for one reason or another descriptions of the city were not written down5Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 7qed1·3y12th Century Intellectual Culture & Historiography
Sorry I’m so late to this party, but I thought it was worth adding one point about transmission. (Also /u/XenophonTheAthenian) If we take the reception of Aristotle as representative, there are translators working from both Arabic and Greek in both the twelfth and thirteenth centuries. However, translations from Greek were more widely used than translations from Arabic.
To illustrate the point, here is a list of the number of surviving manuscripts of the major Latin translations of all of the works of Aristotle. (This is somewhat out of date, as it is drawn from the Cambridge History of Later Medieval Philosophy. It should nevertheless be representative and can be cross-referenced with the updated list of translators in the more recent Cambridge History of Medieval Philosophy.)
JV = James of Venice [fl. ~1125-50] (Working from Greek in Constantinople)
GC = Gerard of Cremona [~1114-1187] (Working from Arabic in Spain)
MS = Michael Scot [~1175-1232] (Working from Arabic in Sicily)
WM = William of Moerbeke [~1215/35-1268] (Working from Greek in Constantinople)
x* = translated from Arabic
Posterior Analytics
JV: 275
GC: 3*
WM: 4
Physics
JV: 139
MS: 65*
WM: 230
De Caelo
GC: 101*
MS: 36 *
WM 185
De generatione et corruptione
Anon. [c12]: 118
GC: 8*
?WM: 190
Meteorologica
Henricus Aristippus/GC: 113(*)
WM: 175
De Anima
JV: 175
MS: 62*
WM: 268
De sensu
Anon. [c12]: 94
WM : 161
De memoria
JV: 115
WM: 160
De somno
Anon [c12]: 102
WM: 162
De logitudine
JV: 101
WM: 158
De iuventute
JV: 4
WM: 157
De respiratione
JV: 4
WM: 149
De morte
JV: 5
WM: 151
De animalibus
MS: 69*
WM: 237
Metaphysics
JV: 5
Anon [c12]: 24
MS: 126*
Anon [c13]: 41
WM: 217
Nicomachean Ethics
Anon [c12]: 48
Anon [c13]: 40
Robert Grosseteste: 33
Anon [c13]: 246
Eudemian Ethics (incomlete)
Anon [c13]: 139
Politics
WM: 107
Oeconomica
Anon [c13]: 15
Durandus de Alvernia: 79
Rhetoric
Anon [c13]: 5
Hermannus Alemannus: 3*
WM: 100
Rhetorica ad Alexandrum
Anon [c14]: 1
Anon [c14]: 1
Poetics
WM: 25Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 6alriclofgar·3yPost-Roman Britain | Late Antiquity
My grasp of medieval intellectual history after the 11th century is, I’m afraid, pretty basic. If shlin28 chooses to enter the conversation, perhaps they can help us out.1Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 4TanktopSamurai·3yInteresting Inquirer
Thank you very much for your answer!
I have another question. A common contributors to science is said to be Greeks scholars fleeing the Ottoman conquests, especially the Fall of Constantinople. Is it as significant a factor as it commonly said? If it is, how does this fit with your response?3Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 5XenophonTheAthenian·3yLate Republic and Roman Civil Wars
At this point we’re rapidly exiting the scope of my particular understanding. I’m not sure when precisely the idea that Byzantine scholars fleeing the sack of Constantinople “touched off” the Renaissance emerged, but I don’t think it stands up to actual examination. While a number of important Greek scholars made their way to Italy in the fifteenth century, their influence can be easily overstated. Byzantine Greek scholars played an important role in the rediscovery in the west of several Greek authors (notably Plato) and made knowledge of Greek more readily available. But at the same time Greek scholars still usually worked to translate their texts to Latin, and the influence of the fall of Byzantium seems only coincidental if you actually look at who was coming over when. Such important scholars as Gemistus Pletho, George of Trebizond, and John Argyropoulos had come to Italy and entered the Italian academic world well before the fall of Constantinople in 1453. In fact, all three of those scholars had come over to Italy in 1438 for the Council of Florence, which brought Greek scholars into contact with western scholars in much greater numbers and proximity than the scattered refugees from the capture of Constantinople. Some returned to the east for a few years before coming back, but many (if not most) of the most important Greek scholars of Renaissance Italy stayed in Italy. Gemistus Pletho never returned to Greece and died either just before or just after Constantinople was captured. George of Trebizond either went to Italy with the Council of Florence or nearly a decade earlier at the request of a Venetian friend and did not return to the east. John Argyropoulos did permanently settle in Italy after fleeing from Constantinople, but he had already spent significant time in Italy, arriving for the Council of Florence and only returning in 1443 after completing a doctorate at Padua. A handful of scholars, like Theodorus Gaza, were driven to Italy directly by the action of the Turks. But note that Theodorus Gaza came to Italy in 1430, fully two decades before the capture of Constantinople, because his native Thessaloniki had been retaken by the Turks. By the time of Constantinople’s capture Greek scholars had already been in Italy in large numbers for over two decades, some of them for even longer. And the introduction of Greek scholarship into the Latin west was not, as I have already pointed out, entirely a sudden affair. Italians had been acquainted with Greek since the twelfth century or so, and steadily increasing contacts were made between the Italian and Greek literate classes throughout the later Middle Ages. It’s also worth noting that the availability of material does not necessarily mean much of anything. Cicero’s letters to Atticus, which in the Middle Ages were not even known by scholars ever to have existed at all, were discovered by Petrarch in 1345 in Verona, where they had just been sitting ignored. The case of Tacitus I mentioned earlier is also striking: Monte Cassino is a little over a day’s walk from Rome, yet its manuscript of Tacitus was wholly unknown until Boccaccio moved it to Florence in the mid-fourteenth century. The increase in Greek material in the early fifteenth century would have been more or less worthless without the humanist habit of searching out classical texts from where they were stored and reading them in the original that long preceded it. The fact that the Council of Florence even took place and invited so many scholars from east and west is in part due precisely to the humanist influence, and a parallel “Renaissance” that took place in the Byzantine east.6Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 2TsegenOP·3y
Regardless of the truth of the claim as a whole the polemic nature of this and other statements is immediately obvious, and it should be clear that this is not an objective analysis.
Fernandez-Morera is quite clearly polemical in tone, but he casts himself as responding to a set of motivated tropes and errors. It’s difficult for a non-historian to know just how seriously to take him in this regard. I found it suspicious on reading but didn’t want to dismiss the chance that he was dealing with something real.
Anyway, thanks for clearing up the question in the OP!6Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 3alriclofgar·3y·edited 3yPost-Roman Britain | Late Antiquity
It’s difficult for a non-historian to know just how seriously to take him in this regard.
A very good trick, when you’re not an expert on the topic and want to figure out if they’re biased or not, is to see who published the book.
Rigorous scholarship is usually published through a press affiliated with a university (Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press, Harvard, Cornell–you get the idea). If a book is published with a university press, you can be confident that it has gone through a process of peer review by other scholars to ensure that the claims it makes are based on rigorous research. You can also be confident that the author has credentials (usually, a PhD). Books published with university presses can still have biases or agendas, of course, but they must nevertheless meet a set of standards that reign these biases in, and the biases belong solely to the individual author. A university press publishes books based on the quality of their research, not the agenda of the writers.
The book from which you are quoting was published, according to amazon, by a press called the Intercollegiate Studies Institute. This press is clearly not affiliated with a specific university (else, it would be in the name), but it sounds kind of credible? However–if you visit the press’ website, you will read the following on their “about” page:
ISI was there when the American conservative movement started sixty years ago. …
The page (https://home.isi.org/about/about-isi ) continues to describe a specific political agenda that the press is trying to advance (including a list of six principles that they believe in, all of which are very politically Conservative). This makes it clear that the ISI is not publishing books that try to be unbiased works of scholarship. Instead, they publish books that further their politically Conservative agenda (this isn’t wrong per se–lots of groups have agendas; but it’s important to recognize that this influences the material they produce).
To know whether and how this agenda distorts the facts communicated in their books you’d need to be an expert on the subject (thanks to /u/XenophonTheAthenian for jumping in to our rescue!). As a non-expert, however, identifying that a publisher has explicit biases is a quick way to raise a red flag.
When in doubt, seek out books from university presses. They have quality controls and their goal is good scholarship rather than partisan politics.16Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 3WOLF_ALICE·3y
Also crucial to note that his framing of this issue is quite seriously linked to contemporary debates on ‘Islam’ and of its compatibility to western, enlightenment concepts of society. He has framed his argument in this way as it looks to severe ties and interaction between Western civilisation and Islamic society and religion.4Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 1CptBuck·3y
The Muslim intellectuals who served as propagandists for Caliph Al-Mamun (the same caliph who started the famous Islamic Inquisition to cope with the rationalism that had begun to infiltrate Islam upon its contact with Greek knowledge)
It’s also perhaps worth noting that this is a flat-out incorrect description of the Mihna—the Caliph Mamun’s inquisition.
The Mihna had absolutely nothing to do with the “infiltration” of “rationalism” into Islam “upon its contact with Greek knowledge”.
The primary point of dispute was over Mamun’s desire to enforce the doctrine of the createdness of the Quran. The entire dispute sounds incredibly obscure to modern ears, but it was supported by the “rationalist” Mu’tazilites. In other words it was an inquisition in favor of the “rationalists” against the religious traditionalists.
Now, calling the Mutazalites “rationalists” is itself a gross oversimplification, but this simply a point on which the author is so far off the mark as to have his bass completely ackward.11Give AwardShareReportSavelevel 2MaximiliionPegasus·3y
I have read about Mutazilah and Cabriya. Can I ask what you know about them?1Give AwardShareReportSave
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